For our last episode of the series and of the year, guest host Margherita Dall’Occo-Vaccaro interviews Claire Bertholli, a youth leader in the space and all round activist involved with various feminist organisations.
They talk about the importance of young people’s involvement, advocating as young people with disabilities and being in feminist spaces where disability is not always at the forefront. Listen in to get to know Claire and her advocacy!
Download a copy of the transcript here
Amy James:
(singing).
Margherita:
Hi, everyone. Welcome back to the Women with Disabilities Australia Youth Network podcast. This is our very last podcast and myself, Margherita, is back on, guest interviewing our last guest. Today, we’re interviewing Claire. Claire is a young leader in the disability community who has been involved across a series of organizations, which we’ll hear about today, but is, has been a pinnacle member of the WDA Youth Network.
I wanna start with an acknowledgement of country, acknowledging that I’m calling from Ngunnawal and Ngambri land and that this land was stolen and never ceded. I would also like to acknowledge our elders past, present, and emerging, and extend that to all Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander listeners who might be listening in today.
So, we have Claire with us, uh, and I’d like to start by, you know, asking if you could tell us a little bit about yourself and how you got involved in disability advocacy.
Claire:
Hi, um, it’s great to be here. My name’s Claire Bertholli. I am coming to you from Awabakal land, which is in New Castle of New South Wales. Um, I am 26, my pronouns are she/her. I’m a really passionate disability and youth advocate, and I work with communities and listening to podcasts and all fun stuff too. Um, and how I got in- involved in disability advocacy, well, I started off… Well, I think, like, being born disabled like, I-
Margherita:
(laughs)
Claire:
…have cerebral palsy, I think, um, f- for me, disability advocacy just comes naturally ’cause it’s something you do every single day, whether you’re talking with your friends or going out to places, or at school, or at university. But it was only after I started kind of working in the youth sectors and mentor that I found youth advocacy and disability advocacy-
Margherita:
Mm-hmm.
Claire:
…opportunities that could turn into a career. And, yeah, that’s what I do now, and I love it.
Margherita:
That’s so exciting, and it’s so great to hear that, you know, obviously we’ve talked about this before on the podcast that being disabled plays a big part in disability advocacy and having to sort of advocate for yourself throughout your life anyways.
Claire:
Yeah.
Margherita:
Um, but so, I’m really glad that you’ve been able to kind of, yeah, do it more as a job and do it more, um, you know, being paid for that work as opposed to just doing it because you have to.
Claire:
Yeah. It’s great (laughs).
Margherita:
Yeah.
Claire:
When you get paid, it’s excellent (laughs).
Margherita:
It’s s-… it’s really important as well, right?
Claire:
Yeah.
Margherita:
Um, so, you know, I know this personally, but also a couple of people may know you from the Children and Youth with Disabilities Australia, so CYDA, um, Young Leader Program and sort of the work that you’ve done with them. So, I’d like to hear more about your beginnings in the You- Young Leader Program and what it was like for you.
Claire:
So, yeah. I got involved with CYDA, kind of, uh, in their first Youth Disability summit. I went during 2020 in one of the lockdowns and just seeing the passion and the enthusiasm that CYDA had for young people, I was like, “Oh, wow, this is like a big industry-
Margherita:
Mm-hmm.
Claire:
…and an area that I haven’t really discovered before.” And then, probably about a month after that first summit in 2020, they put out a, um, like an expression to join the Young Leader’s Program-
Margherita:
Yeah.
Claire:
…and like, since then… So, they were just, kinda like, “Yeah. A place for you in our second cohort.” Which is the cohort I am engaging within. Yeah, that program is really, really awesome. I met other disabled young people from around the country. People that, like I’d met maybe on a, like, you know, group before lectures which is really fun, and um… Yeah and we learnt a lot about disability justice and kinda community building and systems within advocacy and doing work and caring for yourself as a disabled person.
Margherita:
Yeah.
Claire:
It was really, really fun.
Margherita:
No, yeah, I’m really glad and, um, would you say that the young leader’s program is something you’d recommend to other people to do if they can.
Claire:
Yeah, definitely and I- I think that the engagements with other young people… Saying like, oh you should… This program of people that’ve been in the program and just raised as, like, uh, how it was to be with other disabled people and the program’s really fair, so, it’s [inaudible 00:05:12].
Margherita:
Yeah, that’s really, really good and really exciting to hear that, you know, there are programs out there that are engaging. Um, yeah, young leaders in disability, as well, which sort of leads us to our next question about… Um, this is a bit of tough one, I think, ’cause, whenever I think about this, there’s lots of things that I would say, so again, feel free to, um, yeah, ask a couple of things, like this isn’t a singular one thing question. And that is, you know, what do you think needs to change for young people to get more involved in youth leadership? And, I think, by youth leadership I mean definitely like, not only things like the Young Leader Program, but also actual involvement and consultation and leading those conversations, um, and again, for me there isn’t one thing, so…
Claire:
Yeah.
Margherita:
You can think of more than one.
Claire:
I can definitely… There’s a few things, yeah.
Margherita:
Yeah.
Claire:
I think for me it’s kind of two fold. It’s like, you’ve got the young people that are, are looking… looking for the right opportunity to fit their needs and that are accessible to them whether they’re online, like, as a re… A person living in a regional area, having opportunities that are online, you know, can connect people around Australia is really important to me, but also, kind of, having that awareness from organizations that want to engage with young people that they’re willing to put in the work to get them to engage. So, like-
Margherita:
Yeah.
Claire:
Actually include is in discussions, like that. Just, one young person there, and that is a trust in young persons, and people involved in ongoing projects. Paying.
Margherita:
Yeah, yeah, I was gonna say paying.
Claire:
Yeah. Making sure that, like, there’s equal opportunity for, like, networking, as well. A bit of time for social things in the engagements, as well.
Margherita:
Yeah, no-
Claire:
Yeah.
Margherita:
Absolutely. I think that working’s really important and I would say that also, like, just being able to get… meet other young people similar, right?
Claire:
Yeah.
Margherita:
Yeah, I think, you know, and it’s like, again, there’s so many things that you just listed off so many. And I think, um, like, do you think that programs, and you know, youth advisory committees are a part of this as well? I know that you’ve done, um, you’re on a committee for the Hunter region as well as the Equality Rights Alliance. ERA. And the Y. So I’d love to hear more about generally what you think about programs and youth advisory committees, but also about your involvement in those.
Claire:
I think the… I think the committee I’m generally honored.
Margherita:
(laughs)
Claire:
To a point where, I’m like, “I have to stop signing myself up for committees.” I think they’re great, because it’s kind of a voice and these people but not like so it has to be, um, like, structured into like one particular thing. So, you can like share your interests and your expertise for multiple things, which I really enjoy. And, you know, I really think that it’s just that feedback and that engagement that’s really important. Like, I’m in one as you were saying for the Hunter region, which is where I live, and, um, it’s been really interesting to kind of look at that because it’s, it’s a committee that, like, regional priorities and looking at kind of policy and politics.
Margherita:
Yeah.
Claire:
And housing and the environment, completely away from the disability, so I get to kind of flex different skills. Um…
Margherita:
Yeah.
Claire:
And kind of working with the Y as well as the board training this year and last year has been important to begin kind of see how structures work and see how, like, communities work and how different systems kind of make up these organizations that you, you really believe in and you really wanna be a part-
Margherita:
Yeah, definitely, I also think, like, I completely agree on the committee and the program things and I think that you’ve been involved in so many wonderful things. Um, and I sort of just, you know, wanted to expand on that in regards to… Do you think that, um… Do you think that it’s worth organizations looking into youth advisory committees or programs that empower, you know, young people with disability to get involved even if the organization is not related to, um, disability, sort of like, you know, the Y, is not specifically a disability organization, um, but has, sort of, tried to do these programs that involved different types of people from different backgrounds.
Claire:
I think it’s a risk being put into this, like… I think disabled people, on the whole, can kind of look at things in different perspectives and they’re kind of aware of the social world around ’cause they’re in it every day and they’re kind of working with, like, different barriers and different supports. So I think they have a very different world view that we can offer to organizations that might not be wanting, like, direct disability input. And, also I think, to, like, as disable people, we’re, like, complex beings and we also care a lot about our jobs, and the environment and helping and all those, like, things that the general population needs. So, I think that having that kind of… Um, other area of expertise that you can go into it means that you’re not just focusing on the disability all the time.
Margherita:
Yeah, yeah.
Claire:
[crosstalk 00:11:35] It can be a bit, like, sometimes I just need to focus on other things and collaborate with other people and yeah.
Margherita:
Yeah, no, I completely agree and I also think it’s part of, you know, not silo-ing and and not, um, you know, separating young people with disability so much so that then they don’t get the opportunities to just know what random or… and or feminist organizations do more broadly, right?
Claire:
Yeah.
Margherita:
Um, so, yeah, no I that’s a really important reflection. And when we talk about advocacy, I sort of wanted to ask you, how you found being a disability advocate for… For these general feminist organizations or governments has been as opposed to specifically disability organizations, knowing that, you know, you’ve partaken in both, and that both, obviously, have their merits and their downfalls in their different ways.
Claire:
I think for me, I wanna show myself as a person as much as, like, a disabled person, even though it’s a very core part of my identity, but, I think, like, the time with kind of, looking at working in, like, non-disability positions and organizations in general, it’s always gonna be, like, okay, “These people don’t know my needs.” Or, like, aren’t under the cross, thing, like spoon theory or things in the autistic community that are just there, so I think, for me, it’s more of a challenge in like, working out like, how I express my needs and also like, how I get my point of view across in the best and easiest way for me.
Margherita:
Yeah.
Claire:
Um… And it’s also just shutting up and showing people that you can be an advocate more in the space you kind of want it. Sometimes you can have, sort of, imposter syndrome. Like, “Oh, I don’t know if that space is for me.” And I, trust me, I still have that kind of feeling now. Like, ever since something that in this space for me I think, is it worth my time and energy? And, sometimes, that answer is “Yes!”. Sometimes that answer is, “No.” Sometimes that answer is, “I’ll look at that in 12 months.” But it’s important to acknowledge that you can function in… in spaces outside of your disability if you want to, if you feel comfortable in doing so.
Margherita:
Yeah, definitely, I agree and I think, um, honestly, I’m a huge fan of yours, but I also think that it’s really important that other people, uh, hear from their peers in their community that actually, it can be done, but also there are those difficulties about not knowing, about certain things like spoon theory and not necessarily being, um, the pinnacle of accessibility. I still think there’s value in knowing that someone else in our community, um, you know, kind of took the dive and did it and has been able to sort of change, um, the perception of, of what it’s like. So, I think that that’s one of the many reasons why I’m a big fan of yours, but, I really appreciate that insight.
Claire:
Thank you.
Margherita:
Uh…
Claire:
Its… Like it’s also tough because I’m kind of [inaudible 00:15:10] you know the community, so they go, “Oh, you know, we’ve had Claire in this area so we now kind of have an understanding of disability as well.” So, I’m kind of breaking them as well as you said because for the next generation and the next few years as well, you know, that I’ve had people come to me and be like, “Thank you for…
Margherita:
Mm-hmm.
Claire:
…advocating for me so that then I can do what I need to do or can I join that organization now, I can go them in a meaningful way.”
Margherita:
Yeah, no, I… And actually, like, I’ve had personal experiences where, um, specifically with, you know, the YWCA where something has been accessible for me because you had done that before, you had done the advocacy before, so, I can attest that that has happened and, um, is actually like… It’s difficult because sometimes, um, I don’t know, I, I feel that it’s difficult because I don’t wanna always constantly be advocating and always constantly be telling people what’s bad and what’s not.
Claire:
Yeah.
Margherita:
And what they should do, um…
Claire:
Mm-hmm.
Margherita:
So, I find the balance to be quite difficult as I’d imagine you do. Um…
Claire:
Yeah.
Margherita:
But… Yeah-
Claire:
But sometimes I also just don’t wanna be seen as like, “Oh, that’s Claire she’s here because she’s disabled.” I wanna be seen as like as person who has something to say and can add something to the conversation and like, can use my world views to either back up others or create new perspectives.
Margherita:
Yeah, exactly.
Claire:
So I just wanna do, like, yeah… Yeah.
Margherita:
No, no, I think you’re completely right and I think you, like, all of us, but especially, you know, young people with disability are more than just young people with disability who are going in there to try, um, make it accessible for everyone and tell people that it’s not accessible, uh, and we’re all different, and we all have our different opinions, and I’ve disagreed with other, you know, young people with disability before. It doesn’t mean that we’re all the same, so, I can imagine that, you know trying to, yeah, strike a balance between your own opinions, but also trying to speak up slash wanting to speak up for something that wrong, right? When accessibility doesn’t happen.
Claire:
Yeah.
Margherita:
So, you know, considering all of this, um, and talking about a lot of the positives and the negatives, I’d love to hear a bit about, you know, what positives you’ve found in your disability activism, um, you know, just any memorable moments and just things that make you wanna keep doing it.
Claire:
I think I, as, like, there’s such, this work and doing what I what I do it’s just… Meaning… My main one is just, like, me being connect, um, connecting with kick-ass disabled people because there are like of lot of people and like just even not connecting to person but like, or like finding out cool things because now I’ve got friends in the area so I find that really, really the biggest positive is now I have, like, different communities in so many different ways.
Margherita:
Yeah.
Claire:
Um, I also think that, like, being a disabled person, when I get my needs… needs met, like, if I talk about my access needs and the next time I go in to an area with that company or organization and they just deal with that I think I’m like, yes, this is great, like, it’s awesome. And, I go, “Okay, I’m making a difference in this kind of space.” I think, also, just being able to use my voice and talk-
Margherita:
Yeah.
Claire:
And, like, have the confidence to do that is really, really cool.
Margherita:
Yeah, no I completely agree and I think, like, I guess the more we go on, the more the opportunities arise to be able to use your voice and I think, like, I completely agree I think those are huge positives and I think that it’s really… I guess, we’re, you know, glad to have young people disabilities in that space using their voice, because otherwise, um, yeah, I don’t know how much our opinion would be involved.
Claire:
Yeah.
Margherita:
So, we’ve talked about positives, and I think something about, I guess, you know, this podcast that we’ve talked about across everyone else, as well, is that it’s difficult in, you know, there are challenges in disability advocacy and sometimes those things that we come across and that we find difficult, so, you know, I do wanna talk a little bit about what challenges you’ve found in the disability activism, and, um, yeah, things that you… you think sometimes, you’re like, “Wow, this is something I really have to get over or try to… yeah, go across.”
Claire:
I think for me, like, it’s making sure that, like, my needs are met and by enlarge, kind of, the needs to my community are met. And like you… And also, kind of, taking on board, um, what either the disability community, like what their access needs are so I can better support them. So, if that’s not being met, it can be like, very challenging. Um, kind of constantly, like, is there no advocacy… It’s great, though, I enjoy it sometimes, just have to think, kind of, explain things, I don’t know, over again, can get quite tiring. But, that’s like, part of the job. Um… I think also, like, I’ve found a lot, being a young person, like, I’m… And I’ve spoken to you about this before, you’re often the only disabled person and sometimes by enlarge the only disabled young person or disabled young woman in a room.
Margherita:
Yeah.
Claire:
So it’s like “What!” I don’t know if you can ask me one [inaudible 00:21:35] and I wanna, like, as much as I can, I wanna bring, kind of, my friends and my peers on, along with me for the ride.
Margherita:
Mm-hmm.
Claire:
So, I think, because they’ve got differing opinions to me and differing experiences, like, I’m only speaking from my lived experience whenever I advocate, so I kinda of bring as many people in…
Margherita:
Yeah.
Claire:
So, that can be a challenge. Um… And also, just like, having the space to kind of say, I can… I kind of engage with this. Like, working out what’s worth and what’s not worth engaging with, not worth your energy. That’s still something I’m trying to figure out, at 26, I think I’ll probably be figuring out for the rest of my life.
Margherita:
Yeah, no I completely agree and I think those are definitely challenges that, yeah, will probably continue on and I think are relatable to a lot of young people with disabilities especially when… Especially young women, I think, like I think there’s a lot of spaces where either, um, you know, people with disabilities more generally have been represented, but not women and not young women and or, you know, gender diverse people, I think it’s, it’s really difficult when it comes to those kind of things, because we also have diversity points. And I completely agree on, you know, what we were saying before, we’re all different and we all come from a different perspectives, uh, and we can’t be expected to speak for everyone.
Claire:
Yeah. I just feel like… Can I get your opinion on this, I don’t feel comfortable, I’ve been fully in spaces where it’s like I don’t feel comfortable talking about these issues when the house is like, this person, this specific disability, like, pass onto them. People are pretty good, but when you get that one person that says, “We expect you to talk for, like, the majority of disabled people.” And I think the thing I’ve learnt with having cerebral palsy, it’s like this with every person with a disability. Just because, like, you might have one diagnoses, another person must have, like, a totally different diagnoses and that might kind of manifest differently for them, so therefore, they’ve got, like, a whole different experience of the world. So, it’s like, being mindful of individual, kind of, experience and, like, being, kind of, very[inaudible 00:24:23]
Margherita:
Yeah, definitely, I agree. And also, I think this comes into the conversation of the fact there’s times where someone might have one diagnosis but identify more with another one that they have.
Claire:
Yeah.
Margherita:
And or, um, you know, not everyone is able to afford slash afford the medical support to get a diagnoses in the first place. So-
Claire:
Yeah.
Margherita:
Yeah, I think it’s… There’s a lot of challenges, but also a lot of positives and it’s, it’s like a lot of advocacy, trying to balance those two together.
Claire:
Yeah.
Margherita:
So, we talked a little bit about, um, you know your thoughts on activism and a little bit of your experiences in committee. Is, um, but you know, we’re coming to the end of 2022, 2023 is… It seems like time has actually flown which is really, really wild.+
Claire:
I know. It’s crazy.
Margherita:
It’s going so fast, um, we’re almost at the end of October. Didn’t expect that, uh, but… You know, we’re coming to the end of the year and there’s a lot of the thing… There’s a lot on the table for a lot of people. And also, um, in the New Year, new opportunities and also new things that you might wanna do, so I kind of wanna ask you about your personal achievements, is there anything that you wanna, sort of, maybe, has already started, or, that you are kind of working towards for 2023. And, I’d like to hear both about, you know, your activism, which is a big part of you, but also your personal life. Is there something fun and cool that you’re hoping to do, anything you’re trying to, um, take part in in 2023?
Claire:
Oh, so many things. I think uh, we’re kind of just in a world where there’s kind of more and more opportunities for everybody. Like, every day I look at my inbox and there’s just, like, not just personal opportunities for me, but like, different things in the disability space, like, every two hours there’s a new policy being introduced that they-
Margherita:
Yeah, yeah.
Claire:
Like, okay, that, um, but I think for me, it’s just, kind of, I’ve just gotten involved with the Equality Rights Alliance and their…
Margherita:
Mm-hmm.
Claire:
…you know, group. So, it’s kind of building them up because we’re kind of acting as an autonomous group, which is really, really interesting, challenging at the same time where as we kind of self organize.
Margherita:
Right.
Claire:
And… That can… And so, I think, for me, my kind of, at the end of this year into early next year is just to kind of like working with them to get a good sort of thing going and engaging in meetings with them and meet-ups in person hopefully. Um, and, yes, that’s kind of one of my priorities heading into 2023. Other than that, I’m always kind finding myself doing these things, just keeping on the lookout, but also learning how to say no. Which is very hard, um.
Margherita:
Yeah, it’s really difficult.
Claire:
But also, just like, enjoying the Summer hopefully if it’s not too wet and, like, going out and seeing my friends, going to music festivals, and comedy and just seeing people like and kind of enjoying being out in the outdoors.
Margherita:
Yeah, no I’m so excited also for Summer, it’s starting to get warm, and I feel like it’s been the longest Winter of our lives.
Claire:
I know. So wet.
Margherita:
Right, um, and I can’t even imagine in the Hunter region as well. Um, but, I’m really, really excited to see what you do with, um, with the Equality Rights Alliance Youth Group, and I’d loved to know, you know, so you guys are, sort of, self-organizing as you would say. Do you have any main focuses for 2023, or is that still in the works?
Claire:
We’re, we’re we just spoke with our new leader of Equality Rights Alliance, Helen. She was, like, nearly one year of kind of getting involved in stuff with kind of, like, something like the UN Women’s stuff that she’s collaborating on.
Margherita:
Oh.
Claire:
And also, like, today just more involvement around something about coercive control. But, like, aside from that it’s just kind of when we all get together it’s just kind of exploring how organizations work and how we can get better have input as young women and how we kind of represent and put out research and social media events. So, it’s really exciting.
Margherita:
Yeah, no it sounds like you’re doing a lot and it sounds like, um, there’s gonna be a lot happening in 2023, so I’m really, really excited to stay up to date and, um, find out what’s gonna happen. So, you know, speaking kind of away from the advocacy we’re talking about Summer and we’re talking about music festivals, you know I’d kind of like to close off to know more about you, you know, I know that we have a little bit of a bio on you, but, what have you been up to in your free time, if you have any. I feel like you do so many things, I’m not sure where the free time fits in. But yeah, what are some things you like, enjoy doing?
Claire:
When it’s not raining, I love going on, just, like, walks out in nature. I find that to be really good for my mental health in 2020 and 21, so I wanna continue that as much as possible with support workers and my family and friends. I love going to the movies. And… If… The movies for me, being in a cinema is really calming because I can just sit there for two hours and not talk about anything else and I’m in a dark space and it’s great. Um, I also love going to live music and music festivals, which can be-
Margherita:
Yes!
Claire:
…challenging, but also be really fun as a disabled person. And like, it takes a lot of energy but I love it, so I’ll be going to a couple during the Summer and I’m really excited to see not only the bands and kind of the atmosphere, but also see the… I can’t take my advocacy hat off, what sort of like access features and cool stuff they’ve got going on for people like me.
Margherita:
Yeah!
Claire:
Um, I have beach wheelchair. [crosstalk 00:31:35]
Margherita:
So exciting.
Claire:
And I have access to a beach wheelchair thanks to the NDAF. I know that’s not possible for a lot of users, so I like, recognize my privilege in that, but I got that because half my family lives really close to a beach, about an hour away from me, so, just hanging out and exploring different beaches and coastlines and that.
Margherita:
It all sounds-
Claire:
Uh, yeah.
Margherita:
So exciting.
Claire:
Yeah.
Margherita:
I love the beach, also personally. So, I’m really glad, um… That… I am in Canberra right now, so, not near the beach-
Claire:
Yeah.
Margherita:
…and really missing it, and so definitely jealous of you. But yeah, it sounds… I’m really glad, like, I always think that it’s important to hear about what people do out, you know, beyond their advocacy because-
Claire:
Yeah.
Margherita:
I think that we’re actually just young people as well, who enjoy doing lots of different things, and, um, yeah it was super exciting to hear what you’re gonna be up to.
Claire:
Yeah.
Margherita:
Um… yeah, essentially just hearing what’s, what’s gonna be happening and, um, hopefully we’ll see some of those pictures on your Instagram as we keep up to date with you. Um… So, you know, to finally close this off, last question, of the last podcast, we kind of always ask this as our last question. Who is someone that you look up to?
Claire:
Oh, my gosh. So many people. Do you have like another hour?
Margherita:
(laughs)
Claire:
Um… Certainly I’m going to say, like, my kind of understanding of disability and who I was as a person I wouldn’t, like, this is… Without the late, great Stella Young, who was an incredible activist who I look up to and refer to almost every single day of my life.
Margherita:
Yeah.
Claire:
I also really like, um, Carly Findlay. And there’s a… Alice Swan and Imani Barbarin who’s Crutches and Spice on Tik Tok and is amazing.
Margherita:
Oh.
Claire:
And… Just so many disabled people, I mean, there’s some that I don’t… that I don’t already know. But also, like, a bunch of people that I’ve met just through WDA and my works and all the work groups, like, every time I go “Oh, these people are doing such a… These things are incredible.” Being part of such a great group of people who are making music and, um, learning how to DJ and sewing projects and doing all these research… Thinking like, “Oh wow, that’s awesome.” Um… Yeah. Um Michelle Obama’s a big one. The…
Margherita:
I love Michelle Obama.
Claire:
The queen. I love Michelle Obama. Um…
Margherita:
That’s a good choice.
Claire:
[crosstalk 00:34:50] But Michelle is the GOAT.
Margherita:
Iconic, iconic.
Claire:
Yeah. Just heaps of people.
Margherita:
No, I, I think this is a really difficult because it’s like, you’re right, like, do we have an hour to talk through how amazing all of these people are? Uh…
Claire:
Yeah.
Margherita:
And… I completely agree with you. A lot of those people are also on my list of people that, yeah, just inspire me every day, but, you know, as I mentioned before, I’m a huge fan of yours and I know that you’re, you know, constantly, um, being looked up to by a lot of us as well, so, I really think that it’s… I love hearing about who people I look up, who they look up to. Um, and so, yeah, thank you for sharing that with us.
Claire:
Yeah.
Margherita:
I think-
Claire:
And there’s like always new people everyday, like, if they need to say this, like this is, um, like… [inaudible 00:35:41] so many people and I could go on and on and on and the feeling is mutual, like, I look up to you and all sorts of people who are work with like, almost as much as I do, these like, big advocates in America that have done work as long as I’ve been alive.
Margherita:
Right, right, it’s like when someone’s done some, or worked longer than, yeah, we’ve been alive it’s just… It’s just truly mind blowing.
Claire:
Yeah, it’s like, okay, you were doing this and I wasn’t even alive. Cool.
Margherita:
(laughs)
Claire:
[crosstalk 00:36:22]
Margherita:
Yeah, truly, I think there needs to be, like, a giant pool of remuneration for all the years I’m sure that people have gone through.
Claire:
Yeah.
Margherita:
Um… Yeah, no, it’s a lot and I’ve frankly loved learning from you this podcast, loved hearing from you, um, I felt like I learnt a lot about, uh, you know, different things that I knew you were doing but, um, didn’t know the full details on. So, I wanna thank you so much for being on the podcast, uh, I’ll pass it over to you if you have any last things to say before I close us off.
Claire:
It’s just been a pleasure speaking with you and I hope that people listening to this will get something out of it and enjoyed listening to the podcast as much as I’ve also enjoyed listening to other episodes as well.
Margherita:
I’m so glad. I’m definitely gonna come, go back and re-listen to it because I’m gonna, um, just yeah, wanna re-remember things. So, thank you so much for being our last guest on our last ever podcast, we have absolutely loved having you. And, also to everyone listening, thank you for coming along with us on our, you know, journey of a podcast where we’ve listened, uh, and had so many guests from different places and from different backgrounds and with different experience. And, we hope you enjoyed this one. Bye!
Claire:
Bye!
Amy James:
(singing)
